A conversation with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada and an OpenAI whistleblower speaks out


Warning: this episode contains strong language.

This week we are organizing a cultural exchange. Kevin and Casey show off their Canadian paraphernalia to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and he shows off what he’s doing to position Canada as a leader in AI. Next, OpenAI whistleblower Daniel Kokotajlo explains in one of his first public interviews why he took the risk of nearly $2 million in equity to warn of what he calls reckless culture within this company.

Guests:

  • Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada

  • Daniel Kokotajlo, a former researcher in the governance division of OpenAI

Further reading:

“Hard Fork” is hosted by Kevin Roose And Casey Newton and produced by Whitney Jones And Rachel Cohn. The show is put on by Jen Poyant. Engineering by Alyssa Moxley and original music from Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Diane Wong And Pat McCusker.

Special thanks to Paula Szüchman, Pui-Wing Tam, Nell Gallogly, Kate LoPresti And Jeffrey Miranda.

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